[303rd-Talk] Re: Aluminum Overcast
harold susskind
hasusskind at hotmail.com
Wed May 14 19:21:56 MDT 2008
Scotty
The PFF aircraft had two Waist gunners but no ball turret gunner. That's where the radar dome was. Hal Susskind
----------------------------------------
> From: gskywalkers at citlink.net
> To: 303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com
> Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 16:04:26 -0700
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Re: Aluminum Overcast
>
> Thanks for all of the replies. I knew there had to be some reason for the 9 man crews. My next adventure is in August when I will fly back to Ohio for my 60th High School Reunion. I'm sure there will be a lot of old people there but I'm going anyway :-)
>
> Scotty Walker
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: 303rd-talk-request at 303rdBG.com
> To: 303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:22 PM
> Subject: 303rd-Talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (Bob Van Pelt)
> 2. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (Hangartner MaryJo)
> 3. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (IBSPEC at aol.com)
> 4. B-17 Crew Strength (Forrest Barton)
> 5. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (Hangartner MaryJo)
> 6. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (harold susskind)
> 7. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (harold susskind)
> 8. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (Rose & Herb Shanker)
> 9. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (Ken Rose)
> 10. Aluminum Overcast (coleman)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 06:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Bob Van Pelt
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:21:21 -0500
> From: "Hangartner MaryJo"
> Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum"
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I, too, toured the Aluminum Overcast in the summer of 1996 in Waterloo,
> Iowa, with my dad (James Miller Pierce, Paper Doll), a ball turret
> gunner. What an experience! If I had had the money, I would have liked
> to go for a cruise, but I don't think Dad was at all interested. We
> spent most of the afternoon there, and Dad was an instant celebrity. As
> soon as people found out he had actually flown in one, they asked him
> all kinds of questions. Other veterans there, many of whom had not
> flown in a B17 but had served in other places and modes in WWII, were so
> wonderful to Dad.
>
> Dad was 72 in 1996, and he could still grab the entrance on the bottom
> of the plane and swing his feet up, to show us how they entered the
> plane, something my students and I have watched many times in WWII
> movies. Just couldn't angle his bottom and upper torso in like you guys
> used to do.
>
> I have an 8th grade student who also toured the Aluminum Overcast just a
> couple of years ago, and enjoys telling everyone in my classes what the
> inside of the plane was really like. Wasn't that the B17 that Jack
> Rencher was in in that TV newscast last year? By the way, Jack, one of
> my 8th grade techies has saved that on a flash drive for me so I can
> show it to Dad someday if I can ever get a compatible laptop home with
> me.
>
> Dad is 84 right now. Still at home and coping with several health
> issues. I print messages front this website often to take to him. I'm
> always out here reading, and ever so appreciative.
>
> Mary Jo Hangartner
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com
> [mailto:303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com] On Behalf Of bill runnels
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:18 AM
> To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
>
> Scotty,
>
> At age 78, in my case 83 the B-17 is confining. However, at age 18 and
> 145 pounds we had lots of room. Regarding the number of guns, keep in
> mind that every member of the crew, except the pilot and co-pilot were
> certified gunners. With a nine man crew, one gunner handled both waist
> guns.
>
> Bill Runnels
> Bombardier - B-17
>
> Gordon Walker wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> This week end I went to Sacramento, California to see the Aluminum
> Overcast. It was my first time aboard a B-17 and the first thing that
> struck me was how confining it was inside the aircraft. We entered the
> plane through the hatch just below the cockpit. They had the nose of the
> plane blocked off but it was just as well because it would have been
> difficult for a 78 year old guy to crawl into that area where the
> bombadier sat. It was also very narrow walking over the top of the bomb
> bay doors. In any event, I came away with much more appreciation for
> those guys who manned these planes. I was very interested in seeing the
> tail gunner position but that area was also blocked off but I was able
> to see enough to know that the tail gunner as well as the ball turret
> gunner had very very tight positions.
>
> I came away with a couple of questions. Many of the crew photos taken
> after missions show only 9 crew memebers and some 10 but even at 10,
> there were more guns than men so I was wondering who took on the job of
> manning more than one gun position?
>
> Also, my son is into motorcycles and he was wondering if anyone knows
> the bore and stroke of the B-17. I was able to find out that it was a 9
> cylinder radial with 1690 cu. inches but nothing on the bore and stroke.
>
> This is a picture of my son and myself looking the plane over.
>
> http://www.scottylive.com/macswar/Main/aogw.jpg
>
> Scotty Walker
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:51:30 -0500
> From: "Forrest Barton"
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] B-17 Crew Strength
> To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum"
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Kuykendall's crew arrived at the 303rd with 10 personnel and immediately
> lost a waist gunner to another crew due to change wherein one Waist Gunner
> could handle both sides of ship.
>
> Also remember that due to a Radio Operator who was manning a radio room gun
> missing
>
> an important msg because he was manning his gun exclusively, all radio room
> guns were removed and operators told to man their radios unless told to
> abandon ship.
>
> Fory Barton,
> Kuykendalls R.O.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:12:45 -0500
> From: "Hangartner MaryJo"
> Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum"
> Message-ID:
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I will get Nathan right on it tomorrow. He has a junior high choir
> festival this afternoon, so I will not see him any more today.
>
> I forgot to mention in my earlier story, that there were nine in Dad's
> crew in 1944. He told me that the radio man came back and did a side
> gun when needed. When they had to bail out, the radio man was the first
> out. Was that because of his position in the plane? Dad was the third.
>
> Mary Jo
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com
> [mailto:303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com] On Behalf Of IBSPEC at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:37 PM
> To: 303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
>
> mary jo. thanks for your story. i would like an e mailed copy of that
> jack
> rencher news cast you mention. can you send. "SPEC" CAMPEN
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:45:21 -0500
> From: harold susskind
> Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Spec Campen's note to Mary Jo brought back an almost forgotten incident that happened the day I joined Lt. Stoulil's crew in Ephrata, WA. in August of "43 A B-17 crew was on a night flight. For some reason the B-17 went into a dive, the radio hatch was open and out went the radio man sans parachute, For 45 missions, when ever I was in the radio section I always looked to se if the hatch was open. When I got recalled I was introduced to the B-17 once again Flying out of Bermuda with the Air Rescue Service. Hal Susskind
> ----------------------------------------
>
> With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you.
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:45:22 -0500
> From: harold susskind
> Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> Spec Campen's note to Mary Jo brought back an almost forgotten incident that happened the day I joined Lt. Stoulil's crew in Ephrata, WA. in August of "43 A B-17 crew was on a night flight. For some reason the B-17 went into a dive, the radio hatch was open and out went the radio man sans parachute, For 45 missions, when ever I was in the radio section I always looked to se if the hatch was open. When I got recalled I was introduced to the B-17 once again Flying out of Bermuda with the Air Rescue Service. Hal Susskind
> ----------------------------------------
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:48 -0400
> From: "Rose & Herb Shanker"
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum"
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> The designation of the B-17 Wright Cyclone was R-1820. The 1820 was the
> cubic inch displacement. (the R meant radial). Herb Shanker
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gordon Walker"
> To:
> Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 1:35 AM
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
>
>
> Hi Everyone,
>
> This week end I went to Sacramento, California to see the Aluminum Overcast.
> It was my first time aboard a B-17 and the first thing that struck me was
> how confining it was inside the aircraft. We entered the plane through the
> hatch just below the cockpit. They had the nose of the plane blocked off
> but it was just as well because it would have been difficult for a 78 year
> old guy to crawl into that area where the bombadier sat. It was also very
> narrow walking over the top of the bomb bay doors. In any event, I came
> away with much more appreciation for those guys who manned these planes. I
> was very interested in seeing the tail gunner position but that area was
> also blocked off but I was able to see enough to know that the tail gunner
> as well as the ball turret gunner had very very tight positions.
>
> I came away with a couple of questions. Many of the crew photos taken after
> missions show only 9 crew memebers and some 10 but even at 10, there were
> more guns than men so I was wondering who took on the job of manning more
> than one gun position?
>
> Also, my son is into motorcycles and he was wondering if anyone knows the
> bore and stroke of the B-17. I was able to find out that it was a 9
> cylinder radial with 1690 cu. inches but nothing on the bore and stroke.
>
> This is a picture of my son and myself looking the plane over.
>
> http://www.scottylive.com/macswar/Main/aogw.jpg
>
> Scotty Walker
> _______________________________________________
> 303rd-Talk mailing list
> 303rd-Talk at 303rdBG.com
> http://lists.303rdbg.com/mailman/listinfo/303rd-talk
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:44:42 -0700
> From: Ken Rose
> Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
> To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Gordon Walker wrote:
>
> > It was also very narrow walking over the top of the bomb bay doors.
>
> This reminds me of a visit to a B-17 at the Nut Tree with my dad in
> about '88. As we were squeezing through the bomb bay, he turned to me
> and said "I swear these things were bigger forty years ago!"
>
> - ken
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:22:14 -0600
> From: "coleman"
> Subject: [303rd-Talk] Aluminum Overcast
> To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum"
> Message-ID:
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> It is good to hear from the sons of those who had father that flew in crews of the B-17.
> My son took me twice,once to see the confederate AF out of Texas that was Boise ID., and Aluminum Overcast that was in Caldwell, ID.
> Was a little disappointed they both had the tail gunners position blocked off.
> would like to have shown my son the confined position where I was on my tour of thirty mission with one bail out .
>
> Would like hear if Jack Rencher is still able to use his skills and knowledge of B-17.
>
> I am 91 years of age and can't wait till fishing weather. Have lost most of my vision other than that I have pretty good health.
> Loyd Coleman
> 427th Bill Petesen crew
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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>
> End of 303rd-Talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3
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