[303rd-Talk] Re: Aluminum Overcast
Gordon Walker
gskywalkers at citlink.net
Wed May 14 17:04:26 MDT 2008
Thanks for all of the replies. I knew there had to be some reason for the 9 man crews. My next adventure is in August when I will fly back to Ohio for my 60th High School Reunion. I'm sure there will be a lot of old people there but I'm going anyway :-)
Scotty Walker
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Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 4:22 PM
Subject: 303rd-Talk Digest, Vol 18, Issue 3
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (Bob Van Pelt)
2. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (Hangartner MaryJo)
3. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (IBSPEC at aol.com)
4. B-17 Crew Strength (Forrest Barton)
5. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (Hangartner MaryJo)
6. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (harold susskind)
7. RE: The Aluminum Overcast (harold susskind)
8. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (Rose & Herb Shanker)
9. Re: The Aluminum Overcast (Ken Rose)
10. Aluminum Overcast (coleman)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 06:51:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bob Van Pelt <bvp6565 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID: <156008.30079.qm at web50801.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 11:21:21 -0500
From: "Hangartner MaryJo" <mhangartner at turkey-v.k12.ia.us>
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum" <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID:
<1B6C423F7FEA6A4396AB86CB474D0D6E09C7E8 at TVSFILESERV.t-valley.local>
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I, too, toured the Aluminum Overcast in the summer of 1996 in Waterloo,
Iowa, with my dad (James Miller Pierce, Paper Doll), a ball turret
gunner. What an experience! If I had had the money, I would have liked
to go for a cruise, but I don't think Dad was at all interested. We
spent most of the afternoon there, and Dad was an instant celebrity. As
soon as people found out he had actually flown in one, they asked him
all kinds of questions. Other veterans there, many of whom had not
flown in a B17 but had served in other places and modes in WWII, were so
wonderful to Dad.
Dad was 72 in 1996, and he could still grab the entrance on the bottom
of the plane and swing his feet up, to show us how they entered the
plane, something my students and I have watched many times in WWII
movies. Just couldn't angle his bottom and upper torso in like you guys
used to do.
I have an 8th grade student who also toured the Aluminum Overcast just a
couple of years ago, and enjoys telling everyone in my classes what the
inside of the plane was really like. Wasn't that the B17 that Jack
Rencher was in in that TV newscast last year? By the way, Jack, one of
my 8th grade techies has saved that on a flash drive for me so I can
show it to Dad someday if I can ever get a compatible laptop home with
me.
Dad is 84 right now. Still at home and coping with several health
issues. I print messages front this website often to take to him. I'm
always out here reading, and ever so appreciative.
Mary Jo Hangartner
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com] On Behalf Of bill runnels
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:18 AM
To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
Scotty,
At age 78, in my case 83 the B-17 is confining. However, at age 18 and
145 pounds we had lots of room. Regarding the number of guns, keep in
mind that every member of the crew, except the pilot and co-pilot were
certified gunners. With a nine man crew, one gunner handled both waist
guns.
Bill Runnels
Bombardier - B-17
Gordon Walker <gskywalkers at citlink.net> wrote:
Hi Everyone,
This week end I went to Sacramento, California to see the Aluminum
Overcast. It was my first time aboard a B-17 and the first thing that
struck me was how confining it was inside the aircraft. We entered the
plane through the hatch just below the cockpit. They had the nose of the
plane blocked off but it was just as well because it would have been
difficult for a 78 year old guy to crawl into that area where the
bombadier sat. It was also very narrow walking over the top of the bomb
bay doors. In any event, I came away with much more appreciation for
those guys who manned these planes. I was very interested in seeing the
tail gunner position but that area was also blocked off but I was able
to see enough to know that the tail gunner as well as the ball turret
gunner had very very tight positions.
I came away with a couple of questions. Many of the crew photos taken
after missions show only 9 crew memebers and some 10 but even at 10,
there were more guns than men so I was wondering who took on the job of
manning more than one gun position?
Also, my son is into motorcycles and he was wondering if anyone knows
the bore and stroke of the B-17. I was able to find out that it was a 9
cylinder radial with 1690 cu. inches but nothing on the bore and stroke.
This is a picture of my son and myself looking the plane over.
http://www.scottylive.com/macswar/Main/aogw.jpg
Scotty Walker
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------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 12:51:30 -0500
From: "Forrest Barton" <fory at galesburg.net>
Subject: [303rd-Talk] B-17 Crew Strength
To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum" <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c8b458$cfe3e580$ca9a46c6 at computer>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Kuykendall's crew arrived at the 303rd with 10 personnel and immediately
lost a waist gunner to another crew due to change wherein one Waist Gunner
could handle both sides of ship.
Also remember that due to a Radio Operator who was manning a radio room gun
missing
an important msg because he was manning his gun exclusively, all radio room
guns were removed and operators told to man their radios unless told to
abandon ship.
Fory Barton,
Kuykendalls R.O.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:12:45 -0500
From: "Hangartner MaryJo" <mhangartner at turkey-v.k12.ia.us>
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum" <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID:
<1B6C423F7FEA6A4396AB86CB474D0D6E09C815 at TVSFILESERV.t-valley.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I will get Nathan right on it tomorrow. He has a junior high choir
festival this afternoon, so I will not see him any more today.
I forgot to mention in my earlier story, that there were nine in Dad's
crew in 1944. He told me that the radio man came back and did a side
gun when needed. When they had to bail out, the radio man was the first
out. Was that because of his position in the plane? Dad was the third.
Mary Jo
-----Original Message-----
From: 303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com
[mailto:303rd-talk-bounces at 303rdBG.com] On Behalf Of IBSPEC at aol.com
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 12:37 PM
To: 303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
mary jo. thanks for your story. i would like an e mailed copy of that
jack
rencher news cast you mention. can you send. "SPEC" CAMPEN<427th/303rd
**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on
family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:45:21 -0500
From: harold susskind <hasusskind at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum <303rd-talk at 303rdbg.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W105AFB93F6037A88BEDFEBC8CC0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Spec Campen's note to Mary Jo brought back an almost forgotten incident that happened the day I joined Lt. Stoulil's crew in Ephrata, WA. in August of "43 A B-17 crew was on a night flight. For some reason the B-17 went into a dive, the radio hatch was open and out went the radio man sans parachute, For 45 missions, when ever I was in the radio section I always looked to se if the hatch was open. When I got recalled I was introduced to the B-17 once again Flying out of Bermuda with the Air Rescue Service. Hal Susskind
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 13:45:22 -0500
From: harold susskind <hasusskind at hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum <303rd-talk at 303rdbg.com>
Message-ID: <BLU102-W17675B064647A2B72591BEC8CC0 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Spec Campen's note to Mary Jo brought back an almost forgotten incident that happened the day I joined Lt. Stoulil's crew in Ephrata, WA. in August of "43 A B-17 crew was on a night flight. For some reason the B-17 went into a dive, the radio hatch was open and out went the radio man sans parachute, For 45 missions, when ever I was in the radio section I always looked to se if the hatch was open. When I got recalled I was introduced to the B-17 once again Flying out of Bermuda with the Air Rescue Service. Hal Susskind
----------------------------------------
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:38:48 -0400
From: "Rose & Herb Shanker" <shank1 at gis.net>
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum" <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID: <004001c8b478$90c2a650$6464a8c0 at SHANK>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
The designation of the B-17 Wright Cyclone was R-1820. The 1820 was the
cubic inch displacement. (the R meant radial). Herb Shanker
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Walker" <gskywalkers at citlink.net>
To: <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 1:35 AM
Subject: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
Hi Everyone,
This week end I went to Sacramento, California to see the Aluminum Overcast.
It was my first time aboard a B-17 and the first thing that struck me was
how confining it was inside the aircraft. We entered the plane through the
hatch just below the cockpit. They had the nose of the plane blocked off
but it was just as well because it would have been difficult for a 78 year
old guy to crawl into that area where the bombadier sat. It was also very
narrow walking over the top of the bomb bay doors. In any event, I came
away with much more appreciation for those guys who manned these planes. I
was very interested in seeing the tail gunner position but that area was
also blocked off but I was able to see enough to know that the tail gunner
as well as the ball turret gunner had very very tight positions.
I came away with a couple of questions. Many of the crew photos taken after
missions show only 9 crew memebers and some 10 but even at 10, there were
more guns than men so I was wondering who took on the job of manning more
than one gun position?
Also, my son is into motorcycles and he was wondering if anyone knows the
bore and stroke of the B-17. I was able to find out that it was a 9
cylinder radial with 1690 cu. inches but nothing on the bore and stroke.
This is a picture of my son and myself looking the plane over.
http://www.scottylive.com/macswar/Main/aogw.jpg
Scotty Walker
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303rd-Talk at 303rdBG.com
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------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 14:44:42 -0700
From: Ken Rose <kenrose at nc-sys.com>
Subject: Re: [303rd-Talk] The Aluminum Overcast
To: 303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID: <4828BA4A.1060507 at nc-sys.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Gordon Walker wrote:
> It was also very narrow walking over the top of the bomb bay doors.
This reminds me of a visit to a B-17 at the Nut Tree with my dad in
about '88. As we were squeezing through the bomb bay, he turned to me
and said "I swear these things were bigger forty years ago!"
- ken
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 17:22:14 -0600
From: "coleman" <coleman at speedyquick.net>
Subject: [303rd-Talk] Aluminum Overcast
To: "303rd Bomb Group Talk Forum" <303rd-talk at 303rdBG.com>
Message-ID: <000801c8b487$03525090$6401a8c0 at loyde356067fb6>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
It is good to hear from the sons of those who had father that flew in crews of the B-17.
My son took me twice,once to see the confederate AF out of Texas that was Boise ID., and Aluminum Overcast that was in Caldwell, ID.
Was a little disappointed they both had the tail gunners position blocked off.
would like to have shown my son the confined position where I was on my tour of thirty mission with one bail out .
Would like hear if Jack Rencher is still able to use his skills and knowledge of B-17.
I am 91 years of age and can't wait till fishing weather. Have lost most of my vision other than that I have pretty good health.
Loyd Coleman
427th Bill Petesen crew
------------------------------
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